Talk:Deir Yassin massacre

Minor protected edit request - link to the wrong 'pulses' page

In the paragraph 'Deir Yassin' in the sentence " large quantities of flour, sugar, pulses and petrol were taken, all cattle seized, as well as some other livestock, and houses and shops were stripped of their goods, while substantial sums of money were also stolen." the word 'pulses' links to the wikipedia page Pulse, but should instead link to the page for pulses (legumes) Legume. RunRynRun (talk) 14:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks. Zero^talk 23:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Part of Plan Dalet?

Was this massacre a part of Plan Dalet?

According to Ilan Pappé's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine:

The systematic nature of Plan Dalet is manifested in Deir Yassin, a pastoral and cordial village that had reached a non-aggression pact with the Hagana in Jerusalem, but was doomed to be wiped out because it was within the areas designated in Plan Dalet to be cleansed.

- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 06:51, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Added to the article:

Israeli historian Ilan Pappé wrote in his book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006) that "The systematic nature of Plan Dalet is manifested in Deir Yassin, a pastoral and cordial village that had reached a non-aggression pact with the Hagana in Jerusalem, but was doomed to be wiped out because it was within the areas designated in Plan Dalet to be cleansed." According to historian Benny Morris, Walid Khalidi also emphasized "the connection between the Haganah’s “Plan Dalet” [...] and what happened in Deir Yassin, explicitly linking the expulsion of the inhabitants to the Haganah’s overall planning."

-IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

References

Main image

This photo used for the article seems to have no source or information provided about it. I'll be removing it for that reason, but if someone can rescue it or find an alternative image that would be great. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 07:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Maybe we could put the images of the commemerative stamps in the infobox (if appropriate). IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 07:41, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Here is the source: [1]

Also this Haaretz article has many pictures from the Israeli archive that could be added, since they are clearly lacking in the article. [2] Makeandtoss (talk) 09:59, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Am I missing something? How is that a valid source? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 10:08, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Any response to this @Makeandtoss? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:52, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Usually these sites have the copyright and therefore the correct information. They’re not always accurate but at least they tell you the context. Plus a reverse image search shows no contradictions. Let’s not remove the picture from info boxe before finding replacement, of which plenty exist in the Haaretz article and can be uploaded to commons on a public domain license. Makeandtoss (talk) 11:54, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for uploading and adding to this article a proper image. @Makeandtoss. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 21:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Haaretz

This Haaretz source gives a starkly different view of what had happened: there was no "house to house fighting", there was more like house to house terrorism with the organizations blowing up houses one after the other, and indiscriminately massacring civilians and burning their corpses: [3]. Has this article been written properly? Makeandtoss (talk) 10:04, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

"Has this article been written properly?" No. But it's getting better. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 10:07, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I rewrote the description of the attack in the lead to better accord with the Haaretz article.

From "The village put up stiffer resistance than the Jewish militias had expected and they suffered casualties, but it fell after house-to-house fighting. Some of the Palestinian Arab villagers were killed in the course of the battle, while others were massacred by the Jewish militias while trying to flee or surrender."

To "The village put up stiffer resistance than the Jewish militias had expected and they suffered casualties from sniper fire. Nonetheless the militia advanced through the village destroying homes with explosives. Many of the villagers were massacred while trying to flee or surrender."

- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 12:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Drastically rewritten. See below section. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

NPOV Template: Background - Political and military situation

This section gives a distorted/unbalanced/incomplete presentation of the situation. Will take some work to fix.

Key background information is totally absent. The first paragraph is good. The second paragraph not so much.

- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 22:17, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I drastically reduced the content per WP:TNT. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 01:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Rewrite of description of massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deir_Yassin_massacre&diff=1215831580&oldid=1215827765

Leaving this for discussion and review. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:13, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Content removed - poorly sourced and unsourced

The following was removed from the article primarily for being poorly sourced:

Hazem Nuseibeh, the news editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service at the time of the attack, gave an interview to the BBC in 1998. He spoke about a discussion he had with Hussayn Khalidi, the deputy chairman of the Higher Arab Executive in Jerusalem, shortly after the killings: "I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story. He said, 'We must make the most of this.' So he wrote a press release, stating that at Deir Yassin, children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities."

- IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:42, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

And I removed this as it was without inline citation:

They met for briefings on April 8, a few hours before the attack began. Lehi would stage its attack from Givat Shaul, and the Irgun from Beit HaKerem. Lapidot writes that the mood at the Irgun meeting was festive. It was the first time a large number of underground fighters had met openly, and the collaboration between the groups increased their sense of solidarity. They chose a password to reflect the mood, "Ahdut Lohemet" ("Fighters' Solidarity"). This was the phrase that would signal the start of the attack.

-IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 01:41, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

References

Word Spelled Wrong

In the second paragraph of the article, indiscriminately is spelled incorrectly. SirFlats (talk) 17:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Spelling mistake?: "Hagana" vs "Haganah"

From the section Background / Plan Dalet: Pappé writes that that "The systematic nature of Plan Dalet is manifested in Deir Yassin, a pastoral and cordial village that had reached a non-aggression pact with the Hagana in Jerusalem..."

I assume "Hagana" refers to "Haganah." I am unsure if this is a variant spelling used in the direct quote or a typo.

I am also unable to directly check the source or edit the page.

If Pappé did write "Hagana" perhaps adding an "h" in square brackets - "hagana[h]" would keep the page consistent and would assist those of us unfamiliar with hebrew.

Thanks 2407:7000:8385:6D00:DA00:DA58:91BB:FFF6 (talk) 19:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Pappé uses Hagana (per Google Books). I will add your suggestion for consistency's sake. Thanks! - Ïvana (talk) 20:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Just a variant spelling. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 21:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

This is just a minor transliteration difference of no consequence and doesn't need mention. Zero^talk 03:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 October 2024

Formatting: Change - to – in "1947-1948" in: The massacre was carried out despite the village having agreed to a non-aggression pact. It occurred during the 1947-1948 civil war and was a central component of the Nakba and the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight. Wikidadler (talk) 08:57, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done Liu1126 (talk) 09:10, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Improperly Citing Righteous Victims by Benny Morris

Benny Morris is being inaccurately quoted throughout this article. Important context is also missing when he is being cited.

1. The opening paragraph of the article states the following: "The massacre was carried out despite the village having agreed to a non-aggression pact. It occurred during the 1947–1948 civil war and was a central component of the Nakba and the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight." The source for this article is footnote 4(a) which refers to Benny Morris, Righteous Victims pages 126-128. Firstly, pages 126-128 have nothing to do with Deir Yassin and don't mention Deir Yassin at all. These pages address the riots of 1929 in Mandatory Palestine (pg 127), raids carried out by Sheikh Izz al-Din al-Qassam (pg 126), and the introductory section of the revolt of 1936-39 on page 128. This is an inaccurate citation. This citation should be removed as should the statement it is referencing in the article as a result.
2. There is important context cited on page 126 of 1948 by Benny Morris (which was published 3 years after Righteous Victims) that the above paragraph cited from the article does not include. Page 126 of 1948 states the following: "The relations between Deir Yassin and the adjacent Jewish neighborhood of Giv'at Shaul had been checkered. In 1929, gunmen from Deir Yassin had attacked the neighborhood. In August 1947 and again the following January representatives of the two communities had signed mutual nonaggression pacts. The villagers subsequently turned away roving Arab irregulars, denying them aid, a haven, and a base of operations. But it is possible that a band of Iraqi or Syrian irregulars bivouacked in the village just before its fall, and irregulars from the village reportedly fired on West Jerusalem and participated in the battle for al-Qatsal." Benny Morris states that Arab irregulars reportedly fired on nearby Jewish West Jerusalem from Deir Yassin, and that these same irregulars had participated in the battle of al-Qatsal to the West of Deir Yassin. This context is missing from the opening paragraph of this article and should be included. I am unable to edit the article given that it is locked at this time.
3. Footnote 129 is also inaccurately sourced. Footnote 129 is cited in relation to the following quote from the article: Benny Morris writes that the Haganah "made great efforts to hide its part in the operation" and that "Even though Ben-Gurion was quick to condemn the massacre and send a telegram of condolences to the Emir Abdullah in Amman, the Haganah was already busy covering up the more horrendous evidence." The first part of this citation surrounding the Haganah is correct and is pulled from page 208 of Righteous Victims which states the following: "The Haganah made great efforts to hide its part in the operation" however the second part of this quote surrounding the "Haganah was already busy covering up the more horrendous evidence" is absolutely nowhere to be found in the pages of Righteous Victims addressing Deir Yassin on pages 207-209. In fact, the second quote cited from Righteous Victims doesn't exist at all. The reference to the Haganah trying to hide evidence of its involvement is accurate, but the quote surrounding the Haganah hiding "more horrendous evidence" does not exist. In fact, reference to the Haganah hiding its involvement is on page 208, and all references to King Abdullah of Jordan are on the subsequent page 209 and an additional paragraph of text separates the two points. This quote is falsified and the two points aren't physically connected at all in the Morris' work in Righetous Victims.

There is significant misquoting and inappropriate sourcing happening in this article and material context missing from some of the information that is being cited. Aristonkle (talk) 00:52, 24 October 2024 (UTC)